We Do This 'til We Free Us: Abolitionist Organizing and Transforming Justice
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- Author：Mariame Kaba
- ISBN：164259525X
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Summary
"Organizing is both science and art。 It is thinking through a vision， a strategy， and then figuring out who your targets are， always being concerned about power， always being concerned about how you're going to actually build power in order to be able to push your issues， in order to be able to get the target to actually move in the way that you want to。"
What if social transformation and liberation isn't about waiting for someone else to come along and save us？ What if ordinary people have the power to collectively free ourselves？ In this timely collection of essays and interviews， Mariame Kaba reflects on the deep work of abolition and transformative political struggle。
With chapters on seeking justice beyond the punishment system， transforming how we deal with harm and accountability， and finding hope in collective struggle for abolition， Kaba's work is deeply rooted in the relentless belief that we can fundamentally change the world。 As Kaba writes， "Nothing that we do that is worthwhile is done alone。"
What if social transformation and liberation isn't about waiting for someone else to come along and save us？ What if ordinary people have the power to collectively free ourselves？ In this timely collection of essays and interviews， Mariame Kaba reflects on the deep work of abolition and transformative political struggle。
With chapters on seeking justice beyond the punishment system， transforming how we deal with harm and accountability， and finding hope in collective struggle for abolition， Kaba's work is deeply rooted in the relentless belief that we can fundamentally change the world。 As Kaba writes， "Nothing that we do that is worthwhile is done alone。"
Reviews
Jennica Betsch
，
This is a very important book to me and I’m so grateful for the lessons it holds， the most important of which is that hope is not futile。
Shannon Brennan
，
Took my time while reading this because I wanted to be sure I was absorbing and retaining the things I was learning。 I will also probably be referencing this book for years to come。I have been hesitant to call myself a PIC abolitionist because I feel like I don’t know enough yet and I was getting caught in conversations not really knowing what to say to the “what comes next” questions people inevitably bring up。 Found Kaba’s persistent mentality of “you don’t have to know all the answers in orde Took my time while reading this because I wanted to be sure I was absorbing and retaining the things I was learning。 I will also probably be referencing this book for years to come。I have been hesitant to call myself a PIC abolitionist because I feel like I don’t know enough yet and I was getting caught in conversations not really knowing what to say to the “what comes next” questions people inevitably bring up。 Found Kaba’s persistent mentality of “you don’t have to know all the answers in order to be able to press for a vision，” （167） very helpful。 As well as the emphasis on community building， mutual aid， and creating a new reality together。Eager to continue to learn and find my role/place in helping create the groundwork that can lead to abolition of our harm creating/continuing structures and new ways to address harm， how we hold people accountable for harm， and how we help people heal from harm。 。。。more
Maddi Hundley
，
i've been wanting to read this since before it was published bc every other post on my twitter timeline has been about it。 i thought it was a good book and liked that it wasn't one continuous 200 page text， but rather， it was a collection of essays about different examples， thoughts， experiences， etc。 centering around the theme of abolition。the reason i am taking a star off is because i thought that it was such a high-level academic and wordy book that i didn't feel it would be very accessible f i've been wanting to read this since before it was published bc every other post on my twitter timeline has been about it。 i thought it was a good book and liked that it wasn't one continuous 200 page text， but rather， it was a collection of essays about different examples， thoughts， experiences， etc。 centering around the theme of abolition。the reason i am taking a star off is because i thought that it was such a high-level academic and wordy book that i didn't feel it would be very accessible for people who haven't had time to explore ideas of abolition or who don't read advanced texts often—i have read about a bit abolition before and read academic works often， and it was still hard to read （the text， not necessarily the content at its core）。 i'm not sure if that's a Valid Reason to remove a star， but i genuinely felt it hampered and impeded my reading experience and ability to comprehend。 。。。more
Justine Chen
，
Great start！ I'd like to see how this is going to turn out。 You know what， you can join NovelStar's writing competition。 Great start！ I'd like to see how this is going to turn out。 You know what， you can join NovelStar's writing competition。 。。。more
rosa guac
，
a book i'll come back to and re-read。 quotes that i'm thinking about:- "abolition is not about your feelings。 it is not about emotional satisfaction。 it is about transforming the conditions in which we live work， and play"- "transformative justice is militantly against the dichotomies between victims and perpetrators， because the world is more complex than that: in a particular situation we're victimized， and in other situations we're the people that perpetrate harm。 we have to be able to hold a a book i'll come back to and re-read。 quotes that i'm thinking about:- "abolition is not about your feelings。 it is not about emotional satisfaction。 it is about transforming the conditions in which we live work， and play"- "transformative justice is militantly against the dichotomies between victims and perpetrators， because the world is more complex than that: in a particular situation we're victimized， and in other situations we're the people that perpetrate harm。 we have to be able to hold all those things together"- "i think love is a requirement of principled struggle， both self-love and love of others， that we must all do what we can， that it is better to do something rather than nothing， that we have to trust others as well as ourselves。 i often repeat the adage that 'hope is a discipline。' we must practice it daily" 。。。more
Megan Sanks
，
Kaba's writing is truly wonderful and I know I will need to reread this book again and again and discuss it with everyone else， gaining new insights each time。 Kaba's writing is truly wonderful and I know I will need to reread this book again and again and discuss it with everyone else， gaining new insights each time。 。。。more
Kevin
，
My goodness this book is a must-read for anyone who wants to learn more about abolition and transformative justice。 I'm so so so grateful for Mariame Kaba's wisdom and I'll definitely revisit this collection of essays/articles/interviews over and over again My goodness this book is a must-read for anyone who wants to learn more about abolition and transformative justice。 I'm so so so grateful for Mariame Kaba's wisdom and I'll definitely revisit this collection of essays/articles/interviews over and over again 。。。more
Ai Miller
，
Just incredible。 I don't know if this is the best place to start for people looking to get into PIC abolitionism （I would say as a true intro text， Angela Davis's Are Prisons Obsolete？ for a truly basic starting place about why prisons are bad，） but this tackles so many different topics and is such a clear call about how to organize and what the values we need to stick to as prison abolitionists。 The section about transformative justice in particular is incredible， as as the examples of experime Just incredible。 I don't know if this is the best place to start for people looking to get into PIC abolitionism （I would say as a true intro text， Angela Davis's Are Prisons Obsolete？ for a truly basic starting place about why prisons are bad，） but this tackles so many different topics and is such a clear call about how to organize and what the values we need to stick to as prison abolitionists。 The section about transformative justice in particular is incredible， as as the examples of experiments that people are engaging in as alternatives to carceral structures。 I really just want to thrust this book at every person I know and demand they read it， and I can only hope they get half as much out of it as I have。 Will be a reread very soon， and many times after that。 。。。more
Sasha
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Truly my favorite activist of all time。 If you are ready to jailbreak your imagination on ideas about punishment， justice， and transformation， read this。
jo price
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required reading！
Jessica
，
Incredible。 Cannot recommend this enough， wherever you are on your abolitionist journey。
Owen Cantrell
，
“I think that love is a requirement of principled struggle， both self-love and love of others， that we must all do what we can， that it is better to do something rather than nothing， that we have to trust others as well as ourselves。 I often repeat the adage ‘hope is a discipline。’ We must practice it daily。”Read this book in the spirit of love in which it’s intended。
Sarahjane
，
I don't know what makes this essay collection more than the sum of its parts， exactly， but it manages to lay out a cogent argument in favor of abolition that predicts the defensive arguments against it and speaks to the skeptics。 I don't know what makes this essay collection more than the sum of its parts， exactly， but it manages to lay out a cogent argument in favor of abolition that predicts the defensive arguments against it and speaks to the skeptics。 。。。more
Jordan
，
Truly， an essential text for anyone who is even curious about defunding， disbanding， and abolishing the prison industrial complex。 The wealth of knowledge that Kaba brings to this organizing， and the ability she has to incisively critique and connect dots is invaluable。 This one will stay on my mind， and I will revisit it often。 "Everything worthwhile is done with other people。" My belief in collectivism as the only way forward is more firmly cemented than ever。 Truly， an essential text for anyone who is even curious about defunding， disbanding， and abolishing the prison industrial complex。 The wealth of knowledge that Kaba brings to this organizing， and the ability she has to incisively critique and connect dots is invaluable。 This one will stay on my mind， and I will revisit it often。 "Everything worthwhile is done with other people。" My belief in collectivism as the only way forward is more firmly cemented than ever。 。。。more
Jackie Taylor
，
Been waiting on this book！ Even though I read several of the articles/interviews before， they still felt like a new perspective when put in the organization of a book。 Several essays touch on some of the more provocative concepts of prison industrial complex abolition， but the book still seems like a suitable introduction to PIC abolition。
Mohit Nair
，
What a fantastic and accessible read！ It's as if she predicted every question I would have along the way and proactively answered each one （goes to show the level of work and attention that's gone into this work over the past few decades）。 I'm so grateful Mariame Kaba finally decided to center herself in the work she's been leading for years。 I found myself wrestling with a lot of questions， including this need for a transformative justice system that does not rely on a punitive， carceral state。 What a fantastic and accessible read！ It's as if she predicted every question I would have along the way and proactively answered each one （goes to show the level of work and attention that's gone into this work over the past few decades）。 I'm so grateful Mariame Kaba finally decided to center herself in the work she's been leading for years。 I found myself wrestling with a lot of questions， including this need for a transformative justice system that does not rely on a punitive， carceral state。 What I love about her work is how applicable it is to our current events including the lynchings， police violence， and even the anti-Asian hate。 I'm thinking back to her words as we think about how to respond to these acts of terror: "old fashioned， non-high tech tools of surveillance are already destructive and devastating。 Perhaps this is my plea that we train ourselves to see the mundane rather than to focus on the spectacular and on the excesses。。。Black and brown people know that the state and its gatekeepers exert their control over all aspects of our lives。 This is not new。" 。。。more
Julia Clark-Riddell
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A really good book about relationships
Aava Farhadi
，
An absolutely incredible incredible book that highlights abolitionism （what it is， what it looks like）， organizing strategies & disputes common misconceptions; it also covers the extensive work of Mariame Kaba — this book is written for both experienced abolitionists and those who want an introduction， especially because the language is very accessible。 As Kaba says， hope is a discipline， something we need to be exercising， constantly。 We Do This ‘Til We Free Us allows us to practice this discip An absolutely incredible incredible book that highlights abolitionism （what it is， what it looks like）， organizing strategies & disputes common misconceptions; it also covers the extensive work of Mariame Kaba — this book is written for both experienced abolitionists and those who want an introduction， especially because the language is very accessible。 As Kaba says， hope is a discipline， something we need to be exercising， constantly。 We Do This ‘Til We Free Us allows us to practice this discipline by introducing another world and inviting us to collectively reimagine another world: a world devoid of prisons， policing， the military， ICE。 But， not to say that this book is entirely uplifting as that would be reductive — reading through the stories of Black & queer/trans people who Kaba has organized for is both devastating & infuriating。 One of my favorite quotes: “Abolitionism is not a politics mediated by emotional responses。 Or， as we initially wanted to title this piece， abolition is not about your fucking feelings。” We have all internalized pro-retributive messages， but it is， as Kaba says， important we do not codify our emotional responses。 Abolitionism is about pragmatism， though it is often painted as a purely emotional response， and she makes this point clear throughout。 Great read & I cannot recommend it enough。 。。。more
Nicole Froio
，
I want to start this review by saying that this is an incredibly powerful and politically useful book。 Kaba's work is invaluable and she is setting the ground for a better world and that is certainly undeniable。 Her pieces about her own organizing work， highlighting the criminalization of survivors and giving instructions on how to organize around PIC abolition are incredibly insightful and will certainly be instructive for abolitionists like me who are trying to get a better grasp at how to hel I want to start this review by saying that this is an incredibly powerful and politically useful book。 Kaba's work is invaluable and she is setting the ground for a better world and that is certainly undeniable。 Her pieces about her own organizing work， highlighting the criminalization of survivors and giving instructions on how to organize around PIC abolition are incredibly insightful and will certainly be instructive for abolitionists like me who are trying to get a better grasp at how to help reach the abolition of the police and prisons。I have a background in gendered violence which definitely informs what I am about to say about a couple of the essays I didn't like。 I think there's a lot of liberal flattening of power dynamics in the analysis of interpersonal violence when Kaba discusses the Larry Nassar case， and it honestly sometimes reaches the point of it being slightly too dogmatic。 I agree and often argue the same things that Kaba does with regard to gendered violence-incarcerating one abuser doesn't fix the problem， the current system doesn't allow us to treat the roots of the problem， all that stuff-but I am against advocating for the freedom of abusers in the current system that already widely condones violence against girls and women。 I understand that Kaba's position is political and I have an understanding of the argument-but I struggle to square this with the reality that Nassar was a prolific abuser and there is literally nothing in place to stop him if he were to be freed。 There are ways to bring together the fight for recognition of sexual harm （which wasn't recognized and still widely isn't） and the idea of abolition but I am uncertain that advocating for individual abusers is the way to go here。 I say this as someone who thinks abolishing prisons and finding ways to deal with sexual harm is urgent-but I am still reckoning with the widely accepted idea that abusers still receive more empathy than victims。 Abolition has to come with an erosion of class status and to /simply/ advocate for the freedom of individual abusers /in the current class system/ is， to me， incomplete and putting dogma above survivors。I think a lot of Kaba's responses to sexual crimes are responses to bad faith arguments about sexual violence that are thrown at many abolitionists and I totally recognize this。 However I think it's dangerous to let those reactions set the terms for the conversations we are having about how abuse happens。 For example， I really need to challenge the mantra of "hurt people hurt people" （again used in the Nassar piece） because this isn't the only reason， in our current society structured by power， that people hurt each other。 I find this too simplistic an explanation that lacks a reckoning with how abuse can be pleasurable for those doing it （especially for those in power！）-hurt may well be a PART of the problem but it certainly isn't all of it and it just feels like a sanitation of the issues which are incredibly complex and difficult。As I said， it was only a few part of this book that I had some problems with。 I really liked most of it， but I needed to write my thoughts down somewhere。 I recommend it to people coming into abolition and looking to grapple with some of the issues around it。 。。。more
Gi
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This book was incredible。 Definitely an abolitionist staple。
Paul Singleton III
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Gets better near the end。 Kaba's analysis of punishment is brilliant！ i would have liked this book more if more case studies had been included。 It would have been great to read more about alternatives to policing and incarceration that are successfully reducing harm。 Hopefully their next book will have a lot more of those stories。 Gets better near the end。 Kaba's analysis of punishment is brilliant！ i would have liked this book more if more case studies had been included。 It would have been great to read more about alternatives to policing and incarceration that are successfully reducing harm。 Hopefully their next book will have a lot more of those stories。 。。。more
Emily Zhu
，
i always appreciate the clarity and accessibility of kaba's vision and her analysis of the interplay btwn state & interpersonal violence。 the entire "Part VI: Accountability Is Not Punishment" （esp the chapter on #MeToo）， "Hope is a Discipline，" and "Everything Worthwhile is Done with Other People" rly stuck out to me this time。 i always appreciate the clarity and accessibility of kaba's vision and her analysis of the interplay btwn state & interpersonal violence。 the entire "Part VI: Accountability Is Not Punishment" （esp the chapter on #MeToo）， "Hope is a Discipline，" and "Everything Worthwhile is Done with Other People" rly stuck out to me this time。 。。。more
Torvi Red
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Thought-provoking。 Gave me new perspectives about a lot of things。
Jacob Wren
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A few short passages from We Do This 'Til We Free Us:*So， maybe I just have a different perspective and I talk to a lot of young organizers - people reach out to me a lot because I’ve been organizing for a long time - I’m always telling them， “Your timeline is not the timeline on which movements occur。 Your timeline is incidental。 Your timeline is only for yourself to mark your growth and your living。” But that’s a fraction of the living that’s going to be done by the universe and that has alrea A few short passages from We Do This 'Til We Free Us:*So， maybe I just have a different perspective and I talk to a lot of young organizers - people reach out to me a lot because I’ve been organizing for a long time - I’m always telling them， “Your timeline is not the timeline on which movements occur。 Your timeline is incidental。 Your timeline is only for yourself to mark your growth and your living。” But that’s a fraction of the living that’s going to be done by the universe and that has already been done by the universe。 So， when you understand that you’re really insignificant in the grand scheme of things， you just are， then it’s a freedom， in my opinion， to actually be able to do the work that’s necessary as you see it and to contribute in the ways that you can see fit。 So， I think that’s my answer to that。And self-care is really tricky for me， because I don’t believe in the self in the way that people determine it here in this capitalist society that we live in。 I don’t believe in self-care， I believe in collective care， collectivizing our care， and thinking more about how we can help each other。 How can we collectivize the care of children so that more people can feel like they can actually have their kids but also live in the world and contribute and participate in various different kinds of ways？ How do we do that？ How do we collectivize care so that when we’re sick and we’re not feeling ourselves， we’ve got a crew of people that are not just our prayer warriors， but our action warriors who are thinking through with us？ Like， I’m not just going to be able to cook this week， and you have a whole bunch of folks there， who are just putting a list together for you and bringing the food every day that week and you’re doing the same for your community， too。I want that as the focus of how I do things and that really comes from the fact that I grew up the daughter of returned migrants， African-returned migrants。 I don’t see the world the way that people do here， I just don’t。 I don’t agree with it， I think capitalism is actually continuously alienating us from each other， but also even from ourselves and I just don’t subscribe。 And for me， it’s too much with， “Yeah I’m going to go do yoga and then， I’m going to go and do some sit-ups and maybe I’ll like， you know， go to…” You don’t have to go anywhere to care for yourself。You can just care for yourself and your community in tandem and that can actually be much more healthy for you， by the way。 Because all this internalized， internal reflection is not good for people。 You have to be able to have… Yes， think about yourself， reflect on your practice， okay， but then you need to test it in the world， you’ve got to be with people。 So， that’s important。 And I hate people！ So， I say that as somebody who actually is really anti-social… I don’t want to socialize in that kind of way but I do want to be social with other folks as it relates to collectivizing care。*You can’t force somebody into being accountable for things they do。 That is not possible。 People have to take accountability for things that they actually do wrong。 They have to decide that this is wrong。 They have to say， “This is wrong and I want to be part of making some sort of amends or repairing this or not doing it again。” The question is: What in our culture allows people to do that？ What are the structural things that exist？ What in our culture encourages people who assault people and harm people to take responsibility？ What I see is almost nothing。*Not only is it true that punishment doesn’t work， but also when you prioritize punishment it means that patriarchy remains firmly in place。 And if I am at my core interested in dismantling systems of oppression， I have got to get rid of punishment。 I have got to do it。 But I want accountability。 I want people to take responsibility。 I want that internal resource that allows you to take responsibility for harms that you commit against yourself and other people。 I want that to be a central part of how we interact with each other。 Because while I don’t believe in punishment， I believe in consequences for actions that are done to harm other people。 I do。 I think boundaries are important。 I think all these things are really important。 But with punishment at the centre of everything we haven’t been able to really address the other stuff that needs to happen。 Because people fucking need to – they need to take accountability when they harm people。*Oh my gosh。 You’re asking me great hard questions。 I keep threatening to write an essay called “Abolition Is Not About Your Fucking Feelings。” I wrote that in a tweet and got so much blowback because people felt like I was insulting their ability to feel what they want to feel。 That’s really not what I’m saying。 The concept of the personal being political as a basis for feminist organizing in the past is so true， and yet it is so fraught at the same time。 What it’s not saying – and I think what sometimes people want it to be saying – is that how I personally feel then should be made into policy。 And we can’t operate in a world where that’s true。 We shouldn’t codify our personal feelings of vengeance to apply to the entire world。 *Also， I really feel like over the years I’ve learned myself better。 And that helps you to figure out what your actual boundaries are。 And also， boundaries are usually a negotiation between what you want and what other people want。 It’s not like a firm， set thing。 You have to get really good at being able to negotiate。 And the only way to do that is to know who you are。*I don’t think we’re grateful when horrible things happen to us。 But we can be grateful for the lessons we learned。*It’s like， why？ You’re going to burn out。 It’s not humanly possible for you to just be your Lone Ranger self out there in the world。 Ella Baker’s question “Who are your people？” when she would meet you is so important。 Who are you accountable to in this world？ Because that will tell me a lot about who you are。And how much hubris must we have to think that we， as individuals， will have all the answers for generations’ worth of harm built by millions and millions of people？ It’s like I’m on a five-hundred-year clock right now。 I’m right here knowing that we’ve got a hell of a long time before we’re going to see the end。 Right now， all we’re doing as organizers is creating the conditions that will allow our collective vision to take hold and grow。 。。。more
Lisa Houlihan
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Every word:"The system will occasionally offer such kernels， but they don’t add up to justice。" "No reform is being forced upon the pharmaceutical industry in the wake of Shkreli’s harms。""Cages confine people， not the conditions that facilitated their harms or the mentalities that perpetuate violence。""Hope Is a Discipline。" "No one enters violence for the first time by committing it。” No one enters violence for the first time by committing it。" "Transformative justice is about trying to figure Every word:"The system will occasionally offer such kernels， but they don’t add up to justice。" "No reform is being forced upon the pharmaceutical industry in the wake of Shkreli’s harms。""Cages confine people， not the conditions that facilitated their harms or the mentalities that perpetuate violence。""Hope Is a Discipline。" "No one enters violence for the first time by committing it。” No one enters violence for the first time by committing it。" "Transformative justice is about trying to figure out how we respond to violence and harm in a way that doesn’t cause more violence and harm。" Consequences are difference than punishment。 。。。more
Sasha
，
Regardless of your familiarity with abolition， this book is so good！！ Lots of super thought-provoking nuggets and really useful frameworks。 Abolition really isn’t just about prisons and police it’s about allllll the intersecting systems that perpetuate violence and harm！ We’ve gotta jailbreak our imaginations and envision and build a better fckin world！ Loved to read about a lot of local Chicago organizing， too。 And it was also so helpful to hear how much hope Kaba has for the world— hope is a d Regardless of your familiarity with abolition， this book is so good！！ Lots of super thought-provoking nuggets and really useful frameworks。 Abolition really isn’t just about prisons and police it’s about allllll the intersecting systems that perpetuate violence and harm！ We’ve gotta jailbreak our imaginations and envision and build a better fckin world！ Loved to read about a lot of local Chicago organizing， too。 And it was also so helpful to hear how much hope Kaba has for the world— hope is a discipline！！ 。。。more
Melissa Flo-bix
，
Grateful to have all these writings in one place！ I am once again encouraged by Kaba in the work of creating a world without prisons and punishment。
Kat
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Everyone should read this。 Urgently。
Leila
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I remembered most of these essays from when they were first published， almost all as effective interventions to respond to dominant paradigms and narratives at the time （e。g。 about Marissa Alexander， Cyntoia Brown， Larry Nassar， Breonna Taylor）。 I appreciate Mariame’s clarity and grace that invites people into abolitionist politics。 The points she makes and questions she raises around transformative justice and community accountability continue to be grounding for me， though I’m at a point where I remembered most of these essays from when they were first published， almost all as effective interventions to respond to dominant paradigms and narratives at the time （e。g。 about Marissa Alexander， Cyntoia Brown， Larry Nassar， Breonna Taylor）。 I appreciate Mariame’s clarity and grace that invites people into abolitionist politics。 The points she makes and questions she raises around transformative justice and community accountability continue to be grounding for me， though I’m at a point where I crave a lot more specificity about practical applications， challenges faced， lessons learned， and gaps that exist。 What felt grounding was that Mariame emphasizes that no existing group is or strives to be “the model” but rather that different folks are doing what works well for their communities。 In one conversation that was transcribed for this book， she says， “Part of the problem with policing， prisons， and surveillance is that it’s a one-size-fits-all model。 Angela Davis says this perfectly—there is no one alternative。 There are a million alternatives。 And the issue is to figure out which alternative works for what situation。。。 what works for this particular situation we’re in？ What works for these people？ How are we going to actually address that based on human needs？” I recommend this book for folks learning to embrace abolition and starting to rethink the ways the punishment mindset shows up in our everyday lives。 。。。more
allison mills
，