Psychology

Jenseits des Lustprinzips

Jenseits des Lustprinzips

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  • Create Date：2021-07-02 08:54:07
  • Update Date：2025-09-06
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  • Author：Sigmund Freud
  • ISBN：3150189578
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Summary

In reasoned progression he outlined core psychoanalytic concepts， such as repression， free association and libido。 Of the various English translations of Freud's major works to appear in his lifetime， only one was authorized by Freud himself: The Standard Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud under the general editorship of James Strachey。


Freud approved the overall editorial plan， specific renderings of key words and phrases， and the addition of valuable notes， from bibliographical and explanatory。 Many of the translations were done by Strachey himself; the rest were prepared under his supervision。 The result was to place the Standard Edition in a position of unquestioned supremacy over all other existing versions。Newly designed in a uniform format， each new paperback in the Standard Edition opens with a biographical essay on Freud's life and work —along with a note on the individual volume—by Peter Gay， Sterling Professor of History at Yale。

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Reviews

london frog ，

presses ever forward unsubdued~~~~

Betül ，

Terapi sürecimde insan doğasını keşfetmek üzere başladığım Freud okuma yolculuğum， kendi üzerime daha da düşünerek kafamı savaş alanına çevirdi。 Benim gayet şahsi yaşantımla harmanladığım yorumum asla Freud'u bağlamaz。 Kafamda yaşanan tüm kaosa rağmen psikanalizle ilgili okumaların öncülerinden， okuyun okutturun。。。 Terapi sürecimde insan doğasını keşfetmek üzere başladığım Freud okuma yolculuğum， kendi üzerime daha da düşünerek kafamı savaş alanına çevirdi。 Benim gayet şahsi yaşantımla harmanladığım yorumum asla Freud'u bağlamaz。 Kafamda yaşanan tüm kaosa rağmen psikanalizle ilgili okumaların öncülerinden， okuyun okutturun。。。 。。。more

Alexander K ，

I love this man。

Nourhan Hamza ，

لكم صعب على المرء ان يقيم ما كتبه فرويد، لكم كان عبقري عصره وبعض من أفكاره يتم العمل بها إلى الآن！ الكتاب يعتبر معقد نسبيًا، يحتاج لمتخصص أو هاو لكنه قرأ لفرويد من قبل، إستمتعت للغاية بالمقدمة الطويلة نسبيًا، و الترجمة رائعة للغاية كأنك تقرأ الكتاب الأصلي。 أما عن الكتاب، فيتحدث فيه فرويد عن أفكار صادمة بعض الشيء！تكلم عن 4 مبادئ أساسية:- - مبدأ إجبار التكرار الذي يجعلنا نحافظ على الوضع القديم، بلا أي تحديثات، أي ما نطلق عليها مناطق الراحة。- مبدأ العودة للحالة السابقة وكيف أننا كبشر مهيأين للعودة لكم صعب على المرء ان يقيم ما كتبه فرويد، لكم كان عبقري عصره وبعض من أفكاره يتم العمل بها إلى الآن！ الكتاب يعتبر معقد نسبيًا، يحتاج لمتخصص أو هاو لكنه قرأ لفرويد من قبل، إستمتعت للغاية بالمقدمة الطويلة نسبيًا، و الترجمة رائعة للغاية كأنك تقرأ الكتاب الأصلي。 أما عن الكتاب، فيتحدث فيه فرويد عن أفكار صادمة بعض الشيء！تكلم عن 4 مبادئ أساسية:- - مبدأ إجبار التكرار الذي يجعلنا نحافظ على الوضع القديم، بلا أي تحديثات، أي ما نطلق عليها مناطق الراحة。- مبدأ العودة للحالة السابقة وكيف أننا كبشر مهيأين للعودة للحالة الجامدة للمادة، أي العود للعدم والموت مرة أخرى。 - مبدأ الثبات أي أن الجسم يميل للحفاظ على مستوى ثابت من الإستثارة العقلية。- مبدأ اللذة الذي يتطلب طاقة أقل لعمل أي شيء。 المميز في فرويد أنه يراجع نفسه ويعدل على نظرياته بإستمرار، فبعد أن كان يؤمن بوجود ثنائية الأنا والموضوع، أصبح يؤمن بوجود غريزتي الحب والموت المشتقة من إلهة اليونان "إله الحب إيزوس" "إله الموت ثاناتوس" وربطهم بعمليتي الهدم والبناء。 والغريزة لدى فرويد هي أبسط شكل، لا يمكن تبسيطه أو تجزأته، والتي تنشأ من خلال وجود حاجات بيولوجية، تدفع المرء لدحض هذا التوتر أو تخفيفه。 راجع أيضًا تفسيره للأحلام على أنها تحقيق رغبة فقط، وأصبح يسهب في أنواع مختلفة أخرى من الأحلام مثل أحلام عصابي الصدمة وأحلام العقاب، الذي كان يرى فيها أنها بمثابة الإستعداد الطبيعي، كأننا نكرر الموقف لنألفه، فنصبح بعد ذلك مستعدين للأخطار الأخرى。 على الرغم من أن العلم تجاوز الكثير من أفكاره، لكني اجد متعة خالصة في معرفة تاريخ وجذور هذا العلم، وبالأخص من ساهم به وأثر فيه بهذا الشكل。 。。。more

Orçun ，

1920 tarihli Haz İlkesinin Ötesinde ve 1923 tarihli Ben ve İd， birbiriyle ilişkili metinler olduğu için， aynı kitapta toplanması çok isabetli bir karar。 Bu iki makalenin Freud külliyatı içinde önemli bir yeri var， bu önemi birkaç maddede özetleyeyim: 1） Freud’un geç döneminde fikirlerini revize ettiğini görüyoruz。 Ölüm dürtüsünden ilk kez bu iki makalede söz ediyor。 2） Revize ederken， o zamana kadarki tüm görüşlerinin özetini sunuyor。 3） İd-Ben-Üstben， Bilinçdışı-Bilinçöncesi-Bilinç， Haz İlkesi- 1920 tarihli Haz İlkesinin Ötesinde ve 1923 tarihli Ben ve İd， birbiriyle ilişkili metinler olduğu için， aynı kitapta toplanması çok isabetli bir karar。 Bu iki makalenin Freud külliyatı içinde önemli bir yeri var， bu önemi birkaç maddede özetleyeyim: 1） Freud’un geç döneminde fikirlerini revize ettiğini görüyoruz。 Ölüm dürtüsünden ilk kez bu iki makalede söz ediyor。 2） Revize ederken， o zamana kadarki tüm görüşlerinin özetini sunuyor。 3） İd-Ben-Üstben， Bilinçdışı-Bilinçöncesi-Bilinç， Haz İlkesi-Ölüm Dürtüsü， nesne libidosu-narsistik libido， algı-dürtü gibi kavram gruplarının birbirleriyle ilişkilerinin haritasını çıkarıyor。 4） Belli yerlerde， psikanaliz dağarcığını zorlayıp， felsefi/bilimsel spekülasyona girmekten kaçınmıyor。Uzun zamandır Freud okumadığım için biraz zorlandım。 Buna rağmen， kitapta altını çizmediğim yer kalmadı diyebilirim。 Fikirlerine katılıp katılmamaya karar vermeden önce， Freud’un oya gibi işlenmiş o teorik dokusuna iyice nüfuz etmek şart… 。。。more

billy ，

سأعيد قراءتي له عند توفر نسخة ورقية

Stefan ，

Re-reading Freud is always a PLEASURE。

Colin Small ，

That Freud is so recent in time is the issue。 If we read him as we do Aristotle or Lucretius or whatever other ancient "scientist，" there can be no controversy really about his ideas， and we would see that while some of them are scientifically incorrect， they have deep conceptual durability， structures that can be used again with new names attached。 Like the Oedipus complex， the death instinct is easily sensationalized and overused。 Both are profoundly subtle ideas that tempt us to see them in o That Freud is so recent in time is the issue。 If we read him as we do Aristotle or Lucretius or whatever other ancient "scientist，" there can be no controversy really about his ideas， and we would see that while some of them are scientifically incorrect， they have deep conceptual durability， structures that can be used again with new names attached。 Like the Oedipus complex， the death instinct is easily sensationalized and overused。 Both are profoundly subtle ideas that tempt us to see them in only the most obvious ways。 I listened to a podcast about this book that claimed Freud's discussion of war trauma implies that its repetition in dreams is a manifestation of the death instinct， the concatenation of a deeply repressed human obsession with self-destruction。 Freud in fact says the opposite， that this repetitive tendency is an outgrowth of the life instinct's fundamentally conservative nature， that one repeats trauma in order to further conserve what hasn't already been lost through similar catastrophe。 Freud says this fundamentally conservative nature of all instinct is the cause of both the death and life instincts， them being the first and second instances of it respectively。This concept of the death instinct--that due to the natural elasticity of material， inorganic matter that has been affronted arbitrarily to life by outside forces wants to return by that same path back to its former state， and continues to be conservative every step of the way from then on， so much so that life is conserved because it is closer to death than whatever would come next--is one of the most intuitive conceptions of human thought and action I have ever seen。 We preserve ourselves throughout our lives， protecting ourselves from danger on a number of levels， only in order to search for a truly proper or appropriate death。 Has that not always been the point of everything？ 。。。more

Tg ，

I know people find Freud controversial， but much of what he says seems true to life，Many people including myself in my younger years are anxious and angry not knowing why。He breaks down all the inner struggle between all the different "Intra-Psychic " Energies。He outlines how our "Ego" fights against our subconscious to maintain control，and an energy balance。 He describes how the conscious mind wants to keep the energy level the same。 Excitations both internal and external are combatted by the s I know people find Freud controversial， but much of what he says seems true to life，Many people including myself in my younger years are anxious and angry not knowing why。He breaks down all the inner struggle between all the different "Intra-Psychic " Energies。He outlines how our "Ego" fights against our subconscious to maintain control，and an energy balance。 He describes how the conscious mind wants to keep the energy level the same。 Excitations both internal and external are combatted by the system to keep things in a quiescent state。 This is not always good， because we need an elevation of tension to break new grounds and move to a higher level。Like Dr。 Jung and Dr。 Milton Erickson ， I believe the fundamental problem of our time is a lack of appreciation of the Divine。 Dr。 Jung calls it like the ancient civilization the " loss of a soul"On a parallel note Dr。 Sidney Rosan commented that Dr。 Erickson gave him a metaphor that stayed with him to this day。 He was walking along a meadow， and the phrase "Did you realize every blade of grass is a different shade of green ？ " A metaphor to open your eyes and smell the coffee"If I had to do it over again， I would view more sunsets， and walk more streams， I would have more real problems and less imaginary ones， and Oh I would pick more daisies " Nadine Starr 89 Years Old。"The man or woman who is "awake" shines in the radiance of the spirit " Dhammapadda 。。。more

Lauren McDonald ，

While I found this reading very engaging and intriguing it is also very obviously outdated and it was for a class， therefore I don't want Goodreads recommending me similar books hehe While I found this reading very engaging and intriguing it is also very obviously outdated and it was for a class， therefore I don't want Goodreads recommending me similar books hehe 。。。more

Ch Ri ，

يبدو أن كل شئ مرتبط غي هذا العالم。。。 يبدو أن ما نسميه باللذة ان هو إلا حاجيات عضوية أو عصبية تحقق الاستقرار يبدو أن الانسان لا يتحكم في جسمه 。。 بل جسمه من يتحكم به 。。 بما فيه نفسه و عقله。。 يبدو أن الانسان غير مخير و غير مسؤول عن جل ما يمر به。。 يبدو ان هذا الكون يبحث عن الاستقرار بشتى الطرق 。。 في الكائنات الحية و الغير الحية 。。 يبدو أن الكون يكافح ليستمر。

Eduardo Camargo ，

sei lá

Julia S ，

Not too bad at all。

Fergus ，

My good friend and co-philosophe on GR， Alex， has written a very fine heuristic study of this book which I can’t emulate， but to which I will add my two-cent addendum。Freud says， if I understand his meaning aright， that we are born impossible narcissists - and that’ll we’ll do anything in this life to keep pleasing ourselves。If this means six straight hours of TV and a few beers in a quiet corner after work， so be it！And if we don’t like something， we will punish it for failing to give us pleasu My good friend and co-philosophe on GR， Alex， has written a very fine heuristic study of this book which I can’t emulate， but to which I will add my two-cent addendum。Freud says， if I understand his meaning aright， that we are born impossible narcissists - and that’ll we’ll do anything in this life to keep pleasing ourselves。If this means six straight hours of TV and a few beers in a quiet corner after work， so be it！And if we don’t like something， we will punish it for failing to give us pleasure by playing a childhood game of isolating it - away from our private play area。Punishing， as we ourselves were disciplined when young。 So we put a hex on those who cross us， figuratively speaking。Does all this translate into maturity？ Not on your life， Freud says。 But it’s the hallmark of our original narcissistic neuroses。 And it’s gotta stop。How？Well， that’s where Freud is foisted on his own petard。For he calls in his own dark deus ex machina - the Grim god Thanatos， or Death。 Those of you who know your scientific laws know it as Entropy。We may not like it when entropy starts to seize us in mid-age， but speaking as a guy in his Seventies， it’s unavoidable reality。 So the Reality Principle fixes Narcissism’s wagon pretty handily。And disables it。 How many evil-minded old witches are pleased to hear their wall mirrors telling them Snow White is now fairer by far than they are？Not many。 Entropy is final， though。 And lights all poor witches the way to dusty death。 But in isolated ideal form， it re-enacts the voice of an adult telling us to grow up！I think by now we’re beginning to find out why the Death Principle is a sad sorta cure for Narcissism。。。 and why Freud later judged this book as a non-starter。So as psychology perhaps it fails。 Plus， it hurts。But - hold on - Christians like the great writer John Donne saw in Death the sure antidote for the ills of the world。 As a release from all our present sorrows。 Death does not delude。And St Antony， using conviction and remorse as his personal Reality Principle， succeeded in trashing his noisy personal devils under its aegis。So maybe Freud WAS onto something， but couldn’t muster up the faith to draw positive conclusions from it。Perhaps he was only half-remembering the distant childhood words， ‘he who lays down his life shall take it up again！’And， for me， no words ring truer。 I’ll be 71 in a couple of weeks， and care much less about the rest of my life in our decaying and viral world than I do for the upcoming， infinitely more radiant and refreshing one。Remember Dylan Thomas？And Death shall have no dominion。Dead men naked they shall be one。。。Though lovers be lost， love shall not -And Death shall have no dominion。 。。。more

Christopher Condit ，

Tortured logic in pursuit of questionable preconceptions via jargon-laden and/or ill-translated prose。 Not recommended。

amna saeed ，

from mindhunter S01 E01 to here。 INTERESTING。

Michael Greer ，

The author's best work clearly identifying why death remains with us our entire lives。 The author's best work clearly identifying why death remains with us our entire lives。 。。。more

Nsloa ，

a very smart person once told me that we don’t read theory because it’s right， we read it because its wrong in interesting ways。 very few people on recent history have been wrong in more interesting ways than freud。the psychoanalysis of this book is fascinating。 some of the hard science tangents feel very far out of left field。 it’s absolutely worth reading。

Carl Denton ，

This is a wild one

M。 Iyad EizEddin ，

يحاول فرويد من خلال الكتاب -أو المقال- العودة إلى أمهات الغرائز في البشر، فيضيف إلى الغريزة الرئيسة وهي غريزة اللذة （غريزة الموت）لقد افترض أن الإنسان يحب العودة إلى الماضي。。。 فطرته تجعله محبا للعودة دائما، والإنسان قبل أن يكون إنسانا كان مادة، فتميل النفس إلى العودة。。 إنها العودة للمادة عن طريق الموت！إذن تميل النفس إلى غريزتين نقيضين: البقاء。。。 وتركز هذه الغريزة على الجنس （وواضح أن فرويد يفسر الكثير من الأشياء بوضع الجنس عاملا فيها）، والموت。。。 وهذه تكون خفية تعمل في أعماق التفس。_ تبدو فكرة غريبة يحاول فرويد من خلال الكتاب -أو المقال- العودة إلى أمهات الغرائز في البشر، فيضيف إلى الغريزة الرئيسة وهي غريزة اللذة （غريزة الموت）لقد افترض أن الإنسان يحب العودة إلى الماضي。。。 فطرته تجعله محبا للعودة دائما، والإنسان قبل أن يكون إنسانا كان مادة، فتميل النفس إلى العودة。。 إنها العودة للمادة عن طريق الموت！إذن تميل النفس إلى غريزتين نقيضين: البقاء。。。 وتركز هذه الغريزة على الجنس （وواضح أن فرويد يفسر الكثير من الأشياء بوضع الجنس عاملا فيها）، والموت。。。 وهذه تكون خفية تعمل في أعماق التفس。_ تبدو فكرة غريبة والبراهين الموضوعة لها لا ترتبط ارتباطا وثيقا بالفكرة، فكأنه يلتمس أي شيء ليجعله حجة على فكرته الغريبة。لماذا افترض وجود غريزة للموت بدلا من أن الموت حتمي ويصارع غريزة البقاء！_ نظرية اللذة وعدم اللذة سيطرت على تفسيراته لتصرفات النفس البشرية، وجدَ النظرية غير كافية للتفسير على كل شيء، فلم يرجع بالأمر إلى الأخلاق ويقول: إنها الفطرة، بل افترض وجود غريزة للموت، فأجدُ أن فكرته تطبق الإيديولوجية المادية بشكل واقعي ولا تعطي أي اعتبارات للدين。_ جعل الغريزة الفردية （الأنا） هي للموت。。。 أي أنك تسعى للموتأما الغريزة الجماعية （الليبيدو أو طاقة الجنس） هي للبقاء。。。 تسعى للحياة، وطاقة الجنس توجد حتى في الأطفال。وفسر المازوخية تفسيرا جديدا وهو أنها دعوة النفس للعودة لأصلها المادي عن طريق الموت، فالنفس هنا تطلب من أعماقها غريزتها الفرديةويرى أن المازوخية سادية ارتدت لصاحبهاثم يسأل نفسه إلى أي حد هو مقتنع ويرد أنه غير مقتنع لكن هناك أدلة على كلامه تجعله يذكر ما ذكر！ 。。。more

Oneeb ，

A great book on analysing the pleasure-pain principle， exploring repressed desires and their manifestations linking to masochism（acting against instinct）; how these desires get repressed in early stages but do prematurely develop through Odipous complex and how the unconscious manifests such desires whose purpose is to create life and not submit to the ego。Pleasure-pain concept is the primary mover of ID and how a human is instinctive towards eradication of pain （physical or psychological） to ge A great book on analysing the pleasure-pain principle， exploring repressed desires and their manifestations linking to masochism（acting against instinct）; how these desires get repressed in early stages but do prematurely develop through Odipous complex and how the unconscious manifests such desires whose purpose is to create life and not submit to the ego。Pleasure-pain concept is the primary mover of ID and how a human is instinctive towards eradication of pain （physical or psychological） to get relief。 While Freud's arguments may be hedonistic，he does portray an interesting analysis of human psyche。 。。。more

Rafael Tsukamoto ，

é isso ai né

Henrique Valle ，

assim como falei na primeira vez que li esse， repitoincrível ser neurótico :D que experiência maravilhosa :D

Steven ，

To read this， particularly after DuFresne's （Tales From the Freudian Crypt） takedown， is beyond the pleasure principle。 To read this， particularly after DuFresne's （Tales From the Freudian Crypt） takedown， is beyond the pleasure principle。 。。。more

William Levine ，

This one， like The Ego and the Id， is very abstractly written， so I certainly didn't get everything possible out of this。 But what I did get out of it was pretty cool， lots of talk about the conflicting life and death instincts with their repelling drives。 I also liked at the end how he was like "yeah but idk though， all this shits just like something I came up with and thought was cool lol" This one， like The Ego and the Id， is very abstractly written， so I certainly didn't get everything possible out of this。 But what I did get out of it was pretty cool， lots of talk about the conflicting life and death instincts with their repelling drives。 I also liked at the end how he was like "yeah but idk though， all this shits just like something I came up with and thought was cool lol" 。。。more

Marco ，

This is Freud saying that we don't actually just want to live and procreate， we also long for death and non-being。 I like rest and inaction， sure， but to conflate that with wanting to die seems a bit out there， no matter the word salad you use to defend your case。 This is Freud saying that we don't actually just want to live and procreate， we also long for death and non-being。 I like rest and inaction， sure， but to conflate that with wanting to die seems a bit out there， no matter the word salad you use to defend your case。 。。。more

Radwa Hatem ，

من أنفع ما قرأت لابد من إعادة قراءته مرات و مرات

Henrique Iwao ，

Texto entrelaçado muito bem construído， primeiro apresentando um problema， relatando alguns casos， preparando o terreno para mostrar a necessidade de especular um princípio que complemente a situação e permita uma solução， para em seguida tecer comentários。Há coisas que o princípio de prazer - a diminuição das tensões-excitações desprazerosas， não explicam。 Princípio de realidade: renunciar ao prazer e tolerar o desprazer， adiar a satisfação para o bem maior da conservação。 E então já há margem Texto entrelaçado muito bem construído， primeiro apresentando um problema， relatando alguns casos， preparando o terreno para mostrar a necessidade de especular um princípio que complemente a situação e permita uma solução， para em seguida tecer comentários。Há coisas que o princípio de prazer - a diminuição das tensões-excitações desprazerosas， não explicam。 Princípio de realidade: renunciar ao prazer e tolerar o desprazer， adiar a satisfação para o bem maior da conservação。 E então já há margem pra discordância。 Mas e a neurose traumática？ No caso de crianças e artistas， afetados passivamente por uma vivência desprazeirosa， a repetem como brincadeira ou arte; apossam-se assim da impressão imperiosa。 Na clínica， o analista interpretava o que poderia ser trazido à tona e assim levar o paciente a capta-la e então dissolve-la。 Mas não é tão simples lembrar do recalcado， e parece mais efetivo repeti-lo como vivência do que lembra-lo com distanciamento。 Só que há desprazer nisso， e o princípio do prazer oferece resistência。 Surge a hipótese do impulso como pressão para restabelecer um estado anterior das coisas orgânicas vivas， estado que teve de ser renunciado sob a influência de forças pertubadoras externas， expressão da inércia na vida orgânica。 Hipótese do impulso de morte， os impulsos de autoconservação sendo parciais， a garantir a morte adequada， no seu tempo; os impulsos do eu provém da matéria inanimada e a ela querem voltar， enquanto os impulsos sexuais busção a fusão de células germinativas e a continuidade orgânica。 。。。more

judith carlisle ，

You know， -- provocative。 Great for stretching your mind to come up with a unique thesis 。 。 。

Eric Phetteplace ，

What a breath of fresh air this was after reading Lacan。 Freud actually constructs arguments using evidence and is incredibly hesitant to advance his position， going so far as to formulate propositions only to reject them later。 His argument has a wobbly reliance， basically via analogy， on cellular biology but he does acknowledge the limitations of his very own approach。 I find the death drive to be more obscure/unintuitive than most psychoanalytic concepts， all of which I've been introduced to What a breath of fresh air this was after reading Lacan。 Freud actually constructs arguments using evidence and is incredibly hesitant to advance his position， going so far as to formulate propositions only to reject them later。 His argument has a wobbly reliance， basically via analogy， on cellular biology but he does acknowledge the limitations of his very own approach。 I find the death drive to be more obscure/unintuitive than most psychoanalytic concepts， all of which I've been introduced to in secondary literature， but this short volume did both persuade me as to its existence。 Perhaps I should read more Freud。 It helped that this book was abstract and less bound up in human sexuality， which is where I become more skeptical of Freudian theories。 。。。more

Reference

google book https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=Jenseits des Lustprinzips

hathitrust digital library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?q1=Jenseits des Lustprinzips&field1=ocr&a=srchls&ft=ft&lmt=ft

The British Library https://bll01.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/search?query=any,contains,Jenseits des Lustprinzips&tab=LibraryCatalog&search_scope=Not_BL_Suppress&vid=44BL_INST:BLL01&lang=en&offset=0